How to train a dog to Sit and Down on command

[Teresa]

Hi and Welcome!

Kudos to you for rescuing so many dogs! It sounds like you have been making progress with him since you have had him, which is great. Make sure that you are not only working on the obedience portion of this website but working your way up the 11 layer Pyramid as well http://www.selfhelpdogtraining.com/s...gtraining.html.

As far as starting the down, if he is having trouble figuring out going to a down position from a sit using a luring technique with the treat, you can try a variation. Sometimes dogs with short legs, like doxies , aren't easily lured into a down because they can just bow their head down to reach the treat without bending their legs at all. If you think he is seems stessed and frustrated with the lure technique and you are following the steps in the video then you can use an alternate technique.
One other technique is a tunnel or bridge technique. Use of this technique will depend on his food aggression issues, because it requires that he crawls underneath your leg or arm to reach a treat. There is NO force used ( no pressing down on his back, or shoulders).

To perform this technique using your leg (which would be my first choice for a dog with his issues)

1.sit on the floor with on legs out in front of you , then bend one knee so that a opening is created between your leg and the floor. The opening must be high enough for your dog to fit through but low enough so that he has to get on his belly to make it through.
2. Hold the treat on the opposite side of your leg from the dog, extend it through the "tunnel" to him and encourage him to come under the "tunnel" by holding the treat to the floor and back through the opening of the "tunnel". Say"Down" just as he is about to get into the down position for the the treat.
Praise and Deliver the treat as SOON as his belly and elbows hit the ground.
3. If he seems tentative going under your leg you can deliver a treats for putting his head through the opening for a few repetitions, then only give the treat for getting his head and neck through the opening etc. until he is reaching far enough into the "tunnel" to get into the down position.
4.When he is repeatedly going into the down position right away you can try using the lure technique without using your leg as a bridge and say "Down". This usually transfers over really nicely.

Having him on a leash to do obedience at this point shouldn't be an issue if he is good on the leash for you normally, since you won't be using any corrections during Phase 1 anyway.

Let me know how this works out!

Best,
Teresa

[ILuvMyHounds]

Hello Teresa,

Thanks so much for the response. I have tried the technique you suggested and will describe the results. I hope my experience will help others with similar issues as I have watched all the training videos and seen only one medium size dog, which doesn't help too much when all your canine friends happen to be as vertically challenged as mine!

So, I followed your instructions exactly and he hesitated to go under the tunnel so I raised my leg a little higher so he could see the treat. The first couple of times, just the nose and then the head and I supplied the treat and praised. By this time, (less than 3 mins) we have a major drooling event going on, dilated pupils and total fixation on the hand with the treat. So, now he's getting pretty worked up, so I feel I need to get off the floor to place him in a sit and lower the excitement level a few hundred notches. After he has calmed a bit, I get back on the floor and attempt to have him crawl under but instead he powerhouses his way right under my leg in a flash, headed for the hand, err the treat! I still praise and provide the reward but honestly, I never had a chance to even utter the letter "D" in the word down it happened so fast! So, despite all the drool (so much for my morning shower!), I attempt it again, with the leg lower to the ground. He powerhouses his way under my leg again, aiming for the treat, this all happens in a few seconds and despite his low to the ground stature, he is quite muscular and strong. I'm thinking about now he would probably excel at the agility tunnels! Despite it all, I still praise and reward. I repeat the sit session to lower the tension a bit and try again. This time he leaps over my leg, slobber flying all over the place as he goes for the treat. At this point, I am not feeling too comfortable as he is really getting close to his break over point so I place him back into his sit, let him regain his composure, praise and reward, then end the session.

He's very vocal when he is worked up, which since he is also aggressive, really alarmed me in the beginning. After we ended the session (much to his chagrin), I came back to post this message and he comes up, sits in front of me and starts his vocalizations, (which are similar to a low mumbling growl, I should also mention his direct eye contact with those nice large pupils of his!). He's still physically showing excitement (maybe not exactly the right choice of words) so I point over to his bed and tell him "place", which he promptly abides by the command so I immediately tell him "good dog!" He no longer receives rewards for going to his place (bed), just praise.

So, since I still possess all of my typing fingers, I am sending you this update. He did have issues nipping my fingers when getting the treats early on, thus the reason for the closed fist, then opening to supply the reward. I look forward to your critique of my methods and actions. He was pretty excited when we ended the down session, looking at both my hands trying to locate the reward. I just don't want to lose any ground and revive the nipping issues that have been squelched for over a month now.

I look forward to your thoughts and suggestions. He's a great dog who is not at fault for his circumstances. I want to give him the life that I know he deserves, even if it's going to take us a while to get him there! Thanks again for your assistance, it is so very appreciated!

UPDATE:

Okay, we made a second run at the tunnel method, yielding quite a bit less slobbering but still shooting under the leg. I noticed his willingness to try and do what I am asking but yet I can see by his body language that he is very uncertain, unwilling to completely go to the floor even when he does not shoot through the tunnel, (he actually pushes my leg upward as he goes under, starting under in a crawl, then standing to drive my leg upward while passing through). I tried giving the down command and holding the treat under my hand on the floor (after 6-8 tunnel tries) and he attempts to look under the hand without any effort to go into the down position; this is a new way that I am holding the treat, which he does look up at me like he is confused since I have not done this before. He has just recently become comfortable enough in our home that he will sleep on his side instead of with his belly always flat on the floor, so I'm guessing it is an issue of insecurity. I believe if I can prevent him from snapping or nipping at my hand, we will be able to make some progress in the next few tries. I'm thinking maybe I should start to familiarize him with the "leave it" command, in case he starts getting too rough with my hand, any opinions or thoughts on this idea? Thanks!

[Mike D'Abruzzo]

This dog sounds like may be a potential bite risk with the "down". Sometimes dogs with this presentation will bite if frustated enough. suggestions:

Take step backwards and tell us about how the "pack structure" is in the home. Most importantly how it relates to you and this dog. Affection, toys, resting places, etc as described in layer 5 on the triangle.

This dog may need a basket muzzle with a hole trimmed in the front before doing the down or

Use a backtie on a slippery floor. Give little pieces of treats as the dog streches to get them out of the hand. Hold the treats low. When dog gets tired and goes to the ground, then jackpot the dog with a small handful of whatever you are doing -

If either of these is just too difficult, which it may be with the combination of temperamant and extreme stature, hold off on the down. It is not very important for any aggression rehab plan. For dogs like this I have done modified "sit" rules where the dog can slide into a down if tired. This way when u need a stay, you can just do a sit. If it will be for a long time the dog can just slide into a down. The sit is a very safe stay command to teach and enforce going on to phase 2 - but down is not very safe unless u have things in place to be prepared if the dog gets frustrated.

Once the dog gets ahead of the game on a good phase 2 sit. A down can sometimes be revisted and much easier to do.

But, please tell us the specifics of the pack stuture, before we move on.

Warmly,
Mike

[ILuvMyHounds]

Hello Mike,

Thanks for your participation in this thread, it is most appreciated.

Based on your inquiry about the pack structure, I would like to state that I am the alpha, or at least I do my best to be number one.

Meals are twice a day, with each dog having their own area; I point to each individual dog's rug, say their name and the word sit. I hold my hand (palm toward the individual dog) which gives them a visual cue to wait (and stay seated). Every dog is placed and required to remain seated and only then will I start with the dog who is the oldest (been here the longest) and place the bowl in front of him, I make sure that I know he intends to hold the stay and after a few seconds (can vary a bit based on dog's behavior, other distractions, etc.) and I then say okay, which tells the dog he is free to eat. This is repeated in a specific order until all dogs are eating. They are all required to stay on their own rugs until everyone has finished their meal, at which time I release them.

Going out/coming in: I usually address the group by saying something like, "Time to go outside boys." Since all of us may be in different locations, we get to the door at different times but once we have all arrived, I open the door and always exit first, with the pack following behind. Sometimes they come out individually and sometimes they all sort of pour out in a heap once they are in motion but everyone has to be calm (issued either the wait or sit command depending on their level of exuberance) before I grab the handle. Coming back inside is pretty much the same way, although I do allow my active dogs to remain outside longer, however, everyone must wait until I enter and release them to come through the door. This also applies to our gates, no one comes through the gates without explicit permission to do so.

There are no toys or treats laying about and since this specific dog is very toy/treat aggressive, he is isolated when the other dogs get chew bones or toys. I am usually doing something with him during this time so he is not stressing out about the other dogs having something delicious that he is unable to get to. The last time I attempted to give him something to chew on, it was not a pretty sight so I have not tried it again, however, I will give him a squeaky toy and when he starts to get aggressive or growling, I either distract him with another squeaky toy and retrieve the original one as soon as he is distracted with the second one or I will offer him a tasty reward, which he usually loses interest rather quickly in the toy to get the tasty treat. He will get interested in the toy again if I squeak it, but I really have to be careful and at a safe distance before I make it squeak. This is a very tense (and still rather adrenaline pumping) time as I know that I cannot afford to make a mistake. Since there are other issues that need addressing to keep the peace and prevent any injuries, this particular problem is not addressed too much but since it is a non-issue without any toys/treats around, I am okay with what I am able to do about it for now. I now am able to play with him outside (alone) with a fuzzy toy attached to a rope, attached to a dowel, so that he can play. He will go in for the kill sometimes and does not want to give it up unless I offer a food reward, which then he fixates on the treats I have and loses all interest in his fuzzy little victim. Sometimes he is so quick, he will pin it to the ground...I have an image of one of my favorite Rottweilers killing a skunk once like this etched in my brain, which I immediately recall when I see this type of behavior. It's a total prey drive instinct coming out in him and all he has on his mind is to Kill It!

I have all but extinguished this behavior with the treats (rewards) and milk bones. The only thing I have to make certain of is that they are small enough that he will eat them without any leftovers, otherwise, I would expect him to behave as he used to; the stiff posture, growling, guarding type of response. I do not know how he would react now since I have made sure to work within the margins that will ensure success and no stress for either one of us.

Furniture is off limits, there are more puppy beds around this house than we have dogs, so there is always one available. I do have to relocate his favorite bed/blanket to a new location every day so he is less likely to guard it or its location. Affection - he rarely lets me out of his sight and often comes to me for affection but I move away or ignore him and then come back in a minute or so and offer the palm of my hand and he comes to me and I pet him for a short spell and then send him on his way, usually with something like "Okay, that's enough", and as soon as he respects my wishes I tell him he is a good boy. This is probably the hardest part of all because he was locked up for so long and from all outward appearances, is starved for my affection. Crates send him into a total decline so I do not put him in one, instead I put up a puppy gate and place him in the laundry room, two floor length windows to see out of while he is in there.

I hope I covered everything, if not, please just ask and I'll do my best to answer. Thanks again for the support, it is most appreciated!

[Mike D'Abruzzo]

Thanks for the detailed. Sounds like you are definitely doing everything in pack structure great. Keep in mind that it doesn't automatically make you "alpha" in their mind. You may or may not at this point. It only means you are communicating the right way that you are not recognizing their status as above yours. It puts you in the position to move foward.

You can't enforce your status, if you send mixed messages that there is an opening. So you are doing great. As per the rules of dog culture, from my experience, the top pack member whether dog or human is in control of initiatives and also UNCLAIMED possessions, food, etc..

Ideally we want the dog recognizing this and willingly not challenging it. If this is too much work to accomplish, what is the best management plan - or best combination of both..

To make the best plan, the next question is... what are your goals for this dog? It sounds like you actually have a great management plan in place, so what are your goals beyond this? Is it just for the dog to know a down stay? Is it to know a down stay so you can use it in a certain situation that would make life easier?

Again, thanks for your good details - it will help even the casual browser with a similar dog.

[ILuvMyHounds]

Mike... Thanks again for your time, I really appreciate it.

My initial goals for this dog were (1) to save him from the existence that he was enduring, (2) get him healthy (has recovered from anaplasmosis, has been vaccinated, teeth cleaned and received a clean bill of health), (3) provide him with the basics - food, shelter, water and a safe environment, (4) love him unconditionally and do everything in my power to provide him with an opportunity to flourish and become the great companion that I believe in my heart, he can be.

I want him to be confident, reliable and well behaved. I want to be able to trust him with me, other people and all of his pack members. I should mention that we live in a rural setting and outside we have doves, chickens, a big duck, a rabbit, pigeons, two turtles (with acrylic shells-automobile casualties) a red eared slider (water turtle-also automobile casualty) and several wild birds that feed and water here each day, including a one legged Road Runner. We also have a flock of exotic (special needs) birds indoors. It's literally a place for those that have no other place or are wanted by no one else, that's why they wind up here or are brought here. I mention this because I find it fascinating that he pays no mind to all the animals that I have just mentioned, especially after I see him rip into a fuzzy lime green toy on the end of a rope like he does or maim a squeaky toy to death!

In a perfect world, I would like to rehabilitate him and extinguish all of the unacceptable behaviors, but I know this may not be possible. I remain hopeful, however. And, if it is not possible, then I will have to accept it and rehab what I can and manage the rest, in a manner that prevents harm to me, to him, other people and all members of his pack. I am completely unwilling to say that it is too much work, but I can honestly say that I may not possess all the wisdom and knowledge necessary to achieve the goals at this moment, but if they are obtainable, I hope that I can find them. For him, I hope that I can be successful in this endeavor, as with his present behavioral issues, his future would be questionable at best if he were not here with our family. Re-homing him or euthanizing him is NOT an option!

I am interested in resolving all of his aggressive/guarding issues, if at all possible. No matter how much work, no matter how long. I would like to see him fully trained in obedience at least through phase 2, but I'm uncertain about the use of the collar implemented in phase 3; thus, I would have to give that additional thought. If he cannot be trained to down because of his fears, then that will be okay as well and as you mentioned may be doable in the future. I'm not looking for perfection, I just want him as happy and well behaved as he is capable of being, so that I do not have to worry about anyone or anything being hurt. And before I forget, yes... if he was more well rounded, secure, knew all the doggie rules and was trustworthy (do not want any harm to come to any living thing!) that would certainly make life easier!

Again, I am really grateful for your willingness to offer assistance (and Teresa too). There are a vast amount of opinions from trainers in our area, which can certainly get you confused in a hurry. Right now, I am just going with my gut instincts and often find myself flying by the seat of my pants! I can say he has made leaps and bounds since his arrival. Wasn't sure that he would ever be able to eat in the presence of others or without a leash around his neck, but he now he does! I can hardly believe my eyes sometimes when I give him the sit/stay out in the yard and walk 50-60 feet away and he never breaks the command until I release him. And to think, he has accomplished all of this even though I have not had a leash on him since the 2nd week (except for trips outside the home), just lots of patience, making my expectations clear to him and practicing through repetition and lots of praise. In closing, I want to give most of the credit to him for giving his best and working hard to understand what I am trying to convey to him and doing his best to get it right! He is after all a VERY GOOD BOY!

Kindest personal regards and thanks a million!

[Mike D'Abruzzo]

God bless you for helping all those creatures! Everyone is lucky to have crossed paths with you!

Thank you, for all the good info - gives a good starting point. After all, if we don't understand what we are starting with it is very hard to make a plan. One thing you will find here is that we won't ever make false promises or try to give people false expectations. If you expect too much from a behavioral special needs dog, you will ultimately get frustrated at either yourself or the dog. What you want to do here is take the hand that God dealt this dog and work with it the best you can,which i can see you have already done a lot.

Resource guarding is mainly a genetic issue, therefore you can not ever expect to completely rid it from your boy. BUT, nature vs nurture definitely comes into play so the resource guarding can become out of control or very manageable depending on your plan (or lack of). The best plans will involve the combination of building confidence in your dog that there will not be a need to guard against you or the four legged members of the house, obedience exercises so you can guide your dog during potentially problem situations, and (as you are doing) a good management plan that keeps the dog out of trouble while you work on constantly improving the behavior. I saw you made a post in the restless spirit section (or anxiety) i think. That is going to be a huge factor in getting the most from this boy. We'll see you over there.