French RIng Brevet and FR 1 Video

[abndogos]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stfqjuQw1Nk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcV__ZJBYic

[Mike D'Abruzzo]

This video shows much the agitators will test the dogs on the higher levels. Very challenging but cool!

[abndogos]

Yea, that video you posted was not in the US it looks like. Here is another video of a Brevet. The owner of this mal is also a FR judge.


Def. not as much pressure on the dog as your video. WOuld really like to teach TOro this exercises and try to get a Brevet on him.

[Mike D'Abruzzo]

Where is the nearest Ring Club?... I see the biggest challenge will be keeping Toro in prey when the French Ring agitator is no longer acting like prey. He is such a lover with the agitators he is used to, it would be interesting to see how he would be with another experienced agitator that he has no connection with - you wouldn't want him slipping even a little into defense with how vulnerable french ring agitators are. At least with us if he thinks he is REALLY (not just or fake screams) hurting us he lets go!

I just don't envision him as a dog that enjoys "fighting" a person unless it is VERY clearly a game.

That being said, I think he has as much or more natural working prey drive than most and I think he could hurt someone badly, even if they were wearing a full suit (a normal one - not one with 5 layers and bite bars Velcroed on), if he really thought someone was trying to hurt you (take it from the guy who wears like 5 layers of protective equipment when taking bites from him), and think he is smart enough to know what's not protected.

So I guess what I am saying is that if he knows the agitator he is going to enjoy the game in prey, but not so much when it seems like a real fight but at least wont purposely try to hurt him. But, if he doesn't know the agitator I think it would be even harder to get him into prey mode if the agitator isn't acting like prey and would be like playing with dynamite playing with a defensive route against him or worse you.

I am beginning to think that many dogos are like this and is why you don't see them that much in sport unless it is with a trainer who is up for the challenge. I can say for sure that Toro has one of the most unique working temperaments that I dealt with. It is very raw like he would rather be hanging on a boar and getting mostly love from us humans unless there is a REAL reason to break the taboo of biting a human which luckily he has proven to show a lot of restraint.

The hardest bite I ever got from Toro was the first one I ever took which is also when I think he realized how much he hurt me! Then what does he want to do, come over and act like a puppy and love me.

If you had a mal that represents mals the way Toro represents dogos I think you could win the ring nationals in one shot at this point!

What are your thoughts?

[abndogos]

I remember reading in one of the bitework books somewhere, that there are dogs like to "fight" with the decoy as if they were their "sparing partner" much like two boxers in ring are sparing partners. When I have seen most dogos(mine included) and my AB "fighting" a hog, they are in that same "fight" drive(tail high and puffed out at the base) as when some of the dogs are fighting a decoy. I have also seen a dogo "fight" a hog in defense drive, and it looks just the same as a dog fighting in defense(pressured) with a decoy(tail lowered, head down, bark is different than prey or fight bark). I think TOro likes the "play fight" as rough as he can get without hurting you and I think he is inbetween the prey and fight drive, not full out fight but not all prey. IF TOro were to learn the rountine of FR in prey, I think he will be ok. THe closest FR club is in Waterbury, CT. There are few guys around that I have found, one is Bob Solimini up in MA that heads the NE section of the NARA:
- Selected as a decoy for North American Ring Association (level III), National Association of Protection Dogs, K9 Pro Sports (level II) and American Street Ring
• 2005 Decoy for North American Working Bouvier World Championship
• 2006 NARA Decoy of the Year
• 2006 NARA Decoy Super-Selection Winner
• 2006 – 2009 Only American decoy Selected for Level III
• 2007 Decoy for Canadian Championships
• 2007 Ring III Decoy for the Coupe Intercontinentale (World Championships - Douai, France)
• 2007 Decoy for North American Ring Associations Championships
• 2008 Selected for Decoy for the Coupe Intercontinentale (World Championships - Mexico)
• 2008 Decoy for North American Ring Assoc Regional Championships
• 2009 Decoy for American Ring Federations Championship (Ponce, PR)
• Former Director of Decoys for NARA
• Director of Decoys American Ring Federation
• Titled dogs in French Ring, K9 Pro Sports, ASR, NAPD, NVBK, and placed in numerous protection events
• Responsible for teaching 3 decoys to be selected as level 1 decoys

then there is a guy John Soares in Warwick, that does SchH and some ring. I would only allow someone with MEGA decoy experience do FR with him because of the facts you mentioned, and only with a decoy that is willing to work him the way I want him worked(never in defense). I have told guy Paul Cipparone that I am friends with and I am going to his seminar in July about his strength and he is only worked in prey. I would never push Toro into anything that could hurt his demeanor. I also wonder how he will react to a strange decoy, but he does always start getting worked up whenever he sees a suit or whip or clatter stick. When I had the jacket, I did tease Toro a bit with him inside the fence and me outside just with the jacket on, no stick, no "agitation" just walked back and forth with it on and his tail got so puffed out at the base and he got so worked up just by the sight of the suit. I watch the dogs on the videos with the Brevet and the FR 1 and it doesn't look like they are in defense, it looks like they are in the prey/fight drive and having a good time, that they know the "game" and are waiting for that bite.

Oh, and one other guy, he finally emailed me back, Mike Baton a ringer out in CT that my friend trained with and really trusts

[Mike D'Abruzzo]

I once went to a small club that was in Patterson I think? It was about 8 years ago and was in some guys back yard. I think one of the members or founder owned the paint ball shop in Mohegan Lake. It is a vague memory - I went there to take a look at a Dutchie that was for sale. I remember the group being down to earth and the agitation/training good.

[abndogos]

I think that may be Empire State Ring CLub. I think it is like the Stormville area. The guys name is Matt Carraturo. I spoke to Matt and they aren't currently training, I think he went back to school or something. Bummer, cause it is so close. I am racking my brains out trying to remember the owner's name of Crazy Paint there in Mohegan, been there plenty of times to service my paint ball gun and get supplies.