Confusing advice from vets in the same office

[cooper1]

Hi! I just got back from taking Cooper to the vet for his last round of puppy vaccines and got confusing advice on a few topics from this doctor as well as conflicting advice as compared to the doc we saw back in June which has left me pretty frustrated. Both are in the same office.

Weight: Cooper, now at 7 months weighed in at 65 pounds today. Back in June he was 47. Mike, you, Chis and Teresa have all seen him so you know his build and size at this point. I happen to think that although he's always been a big guy and maybe "big boned" lol, he's a bit heavy and just this week started cutting him back to 1 cup of food (Life's Abundance) twice a day from 1 1/2, as I thought he was losing that cinched back look from his chest through abdomen. When I mentioned this to the vet, he said I wasn't feeding him enough if he finished everything I gave him. If anything, he thought I should be giving him more food as "you don't want to cut back when feeding a puppy which might slow his growth". I happen to think Cooper would finish the bag if I put that in front of him so this thinking didn't make sense to me. He also stated that if he could feel his spine, he isn't developing enough muscle in his back and I should feed him more so he doesn't feel that anymore. It would seem to me that feeding him more might put on more fat than muscle. Am I crazy? My feeling is, if I feed him 1 cup 2x a day, give him treats during training and consumable bones (bully bones) that his daily intake is right about where it should be for his age, size, exercise etc. Any thoughts here? Oh, and one of the techs said I shouldn't be giving him treats at all, I should only give him fruits and veggies as his only source of protein should be his dog food. Really?

Neutering: The last vet we saw in the same office stated that he prefers to neuter asap - 8 weeks or so as it's an easier surgery, less recovery etc. but the owner of the practice won't allow anything earlier than 6 months so that's what he conforms to. This vet today said I should wait until at least a year. Mike, you and I have had this conversation a few times so at least it was reassuring to hear a common thought as to having Cooper "fill in" etc. before neutering him.

Vaccines: Although it wasn't really a discussion with the vet, I happened to come home and read the article on Purdue Vaccination Studies and now feel thoroughly confused and worried that I've now vaccinated my dog to his detriment, not his benefit. Although some of the terminology was hard for me to understand, I basically got the gist that vaccines are not great for dogs but does this mean that they shouldn't be vaccinated at all? Reading about inflammation, cancer at vaccination sites etc is all very scary especially as he had distemper, second rabies, second bordatella all today. How does one find a vet who comes from the 27 vet schools who have now changed their vaccination protocols and are knowledgeable of current changed approach to vaccines? The last thing I would want to do is to give Cooper anything that would hurt him but with vets pushing lymes vaccines and all the other boosters every year, it's tough as a layman to know what is best. And as he seems sad, lethargic and crying here and there as we are home now, I'm worried that I just needlessly did him harm. What I don't get is why would vets be administering and pretty much pushing people to vaccinate their pets if they could potentially harm them? If you turn down heartworm, lymes etc they look at you like you are nuts and almost guilt you into doing it! Would the same cautionary advice follow for antibiotics? Cooper had a scant amount of wax in his ears and the vet insisted on antibiotic ointment as he felt it would recur and become problematic. Is it just a money game? My instincts made me feel like he didn't need it at all but when I pushed back and said it was such a small amount of wax, the vet really pushed for the ointment so I bought it.

Sorry for the long rant - it's borderline insane for a thread post! - but I'm a bit frustrated and confused by the advice and care I'm getting for Cooper. Thx for any comment/advice you have.
~Alison

[Teresa]

Hi Alison!

Whew! I understand your frustration and your confusion by all of this. Let me start in the order that your asked:

Weight: I always judge a puppy or dog by body condition, this means how he looks and feels. You were right to look for the tuck behind the rib cage, when looking down at his topline, he should also tuck up bit behind his ribcage when looking at him from the side. Next step would be to feel over his ribs. Running your fingers over his ribs pressing lightly you should be able to feel his ribs (as if their was a quilt over them), If you can see his ribs he is too thin, or if it is difficult to feel his ribs (the equivalent of a down comforter over his ribs he is too heavy. If is spine is very prominent in addition to these other factors he is too thin. If he feels heavy but has a boney spine then he may just need more muscular development which does not necessarily equal more food.

Most labs will eat everything that they can, so I would not free feed him. In fact overfeeding can cause growth issues for him. If he is not overweight nor too skinny then you are feeding the correct amount. The guidelines on the food bag is just that.... a guideline. Take into context his body condition score when calculating his treat/ bone intake . The majority of calories should come from his food but it is definitely not a problem to feed him treats when training. Instead of cutting his food back by 1 cup total per day maybe you can evaluate his treat situation and bones. Treats should be given only when training and should be small pieces of mainly protein. If you feel that you still need to cut back his food you may want to try a more subtle change like 1/4 less at each meal. 1/2 per day is still a lot of calories to be cut from his diet. You may find you will need to add this back in soon as he will start looking too lean when he hits another growth spurt.

Neutering: I agree with the recommendation of at Least a year. You definitely want to give Cooper a chance to develop complete musculature before neutering him as it will help protect his joints from injury, (especially that cruciate which is so commonly injured in labs).

Vaccinations: First I must say that you have to do your research when you choose a vet, and that may mean calling around and visiting a few local places. It is really important that you have a trusting relationship with your veterinarian so that if the time comes when Cooper is ill, you won't have to second guess the situation at hand. All this starts with well visits and vaccinations.

Vaccinations ARE important for your dog. They DO protect him from disease that is deadly and very dangerous. I have seen puppies die from Parvo. I have seen animals with Rabies. It is real. Having said that, Over vaccinating is NOT good for your dog either. Your veterinarian's job is to provide you with the most up to date information on vaccines, and OFFER you services, and advise you what best suits your dogs needs. At this point I do believe that it is still standard care for dogs to get core vaccines ie distemper/parvo every 3-4 weeks until 16 weeks old and then a booster at a year old, then every 3 years. Rabies should be given at 16 weeks and then at a year then every 3 years. Core Vaccines include Distemper (which is distemper/adenovirus/parainfluenza/parvo) and Rabies . Vaccination for Lyme, Lepto and Bordetella should be weighed on risk factor etc.
I don't believe the veterinarians are trying to push vaccines even though they believe they are harmful. I just think that some are not keeping up with continuing education and current protocols. Sometimes, (and such is the case with human medicine as well), we have to be our own advocate for what is right.
As for the ear wax- did they do a cytology to test for yeast or bacteria? Some dogs have wax but no real organisms and others have a small amount of wax and are loaded with yeast and other little buggers.

What it really comes down to is that you may need to find a vet that you are more comfortable with. Again it is super important that you can have a back and forth dialogue about what YOU want for you dog. Another thing to look into if you are not happy with traditional veterinary medicine is a holistic Vet. A good holistic vet, knows how to combine the best of natural therapies and traditional veterinary medicine.

I hope I have addressed all of your concerns..

Oh and if Cooper got a Lyme booster, it is not uncommon for them to be sore. They usually get that vaccine over the Left hip area. See if he will let you warm compress it. I can help make him more comfortable.

Best,

Teresa

[cooper1]

Thank you thank you for your comments! I know it was a lot in one post! I appreciate the thought you put into it and will continue to do my research on vets and vaccinations. They did not do a cytology to test for yeast or bacteria when they gave the antibiotic for his ears. I guess that is what bothered me at that time. It's like my own dr recommending antibiotics when I'm sick without testing for strep or other bacterial infection. I don't like taking meds wo a reason so I wouldn't want to treat my pup for something that isn't confirmed that he has either. Cooper perked up the next day so maybe he was just sore like you mentioned. They gave the second rabies in the hip area so maybe that was it.
Thx again for your comments. I really appreciate you time! Looking fwd to seeing you at class soon!

[Teresa]

I forgot to mention in my last post that you can also opt to get blood drawn at later visits for vaccine titres. This means that they can actually test Coopers level of immunity. If the levels fall greater than a certain value he is considered protected and therefore will not need revaccination at that time. Your vet should be able to give you a price for this testing prior to it being done. While this is more costly than giving the vaccine and certainly more costly than not vaccinating, it takes the guesswork out of whether or not he is protected.

Good luck and see you soon!