Small dog aggression

[ddpowell]

Hi Mike

Training with Manny is going great - well into phase 2 with a lot of the commands and have had some great success with your improved leash handling you showed us!

Lately though, Manny has started actively attacking small dogs - It seems that if the dog barks at her and/or runs away, she will chase it and bite it, but only enough to catch it, never draw blood and never aim for the neck - i've always been able to separate them quickly, however if the dog stands it's ground and lets her approach - she's fine. My parents 2 terriers, who she met as a very young pup, she's completely submissive to as one of them bit her snout the first time she met them. i wonder if this has impacted her reaction to small dogs?

It's definitely gotten worse and we've now had another owner kick her and threaten to take further action over one of these incidents.

How do we best condition her to lessen her excitement over dogs in general and what would be the best approach to show her small dogs aren't a threat - at the moment another dog takes absolute priority over everything but i'm working on the training, especially her recall and heel.

We're due to get a Dogtra in the next few weeks but i want to understand the reason she's doing this rather than feel like i'm apply a bandaid fix with a remote collar.

Any help would be great - i might try to get a video of her when she spots a dog on the leash to show you the reaction.

Cheers

[ddpowell]

Just bumping this topic to hopefully get some help... i really need to put in place some strategies to combat this as we've recently had a very nasty incident and the other dog has died.

[Teresa]

Firstly I am so sorry to hear about the recent incident.

I think you will find the following link about different drives to be helpful in determining why Manny is behaving as she does. Aggressive behavior in dogs.
Based on your previous information of being unsure in situations around other dogs (hackles up) , and having negative experiences as a young puppy, it is possible that she was in fight drive, which contains components of defensive drive and prey drive.

The best approach is a multi-pronged approach. Continue working on getting solid obedience by working through Phase 2 trainining before moving onto Phase 3 with the Dogtra Remote. While learning obedience, avoid situations which she will react negatively. (ie don't teach heel around other dogs, but first teach alone with no distractions and then as she is more reliable practice in varying degrees of distraction.) A solid heel command, recall and leave it will be infinitely helpful tools for both of you.

The other side of the equation is to address her emotional state. Obedience really helps with this as well. Counterconditioning and desensitizing her to the presence of other dogs will make her less reactive and more reliable as well. Desensitizing is done by keeping her at a distance which is far enough so that she is slightly reactive to the dog, but still able to refocus on you and obedience commands. The counterconditioning part is added by giving her a positive association with the presence of other dogs. At this same working distance where she is slightly reactive but able to refocus on you, reward her with high value treats when another dog appears. As she gets more focused on you, reward for progressively more relaxed body postures in the presence of the other dogs and for automatically looking at you whenever she sees one at a distance. As you gain success at each distance and she becomes non reactive then you move your working distance systematically closer.

The final part of this equation is management. Manny should not be off leash when there is any possibility of another dog showing up. Also teaching her to wear a muzzle will be an essential part of her rehab. A muzzle will significantly decrease the potential for her to cause any damage to another dog in the event that she does make a mistake during training or get out of your control. It will also make you more calm and confident in these situations which will reflect on her own feelings as well.

I hope this helps give you a better understanding of a proper plan. Please keep us posted to your progress.

Best,
Teresa

[ddpowell]

Hi Teresa,

Thanks for the info - the attack she was involved in was quite nasty, small white fluffy, puppy farm kind of dog, very old and quite aggressive in it's behaviour, barking at Manny, pulling on the lead towards her. She was off leash and unfortunately she wouldn't listen to me when the dog started barking at her. Despite stopping for a second as i ran a few metres backwards as soon as i looked back at Manny she took that as a cue to continue her charge at this little dog. She definitely ran at it with the intention of attacking it which was most distressing part. She sees little (or timid, she's attacked a dog that tried to move away from her while she was sniffing it) dogs as prey and i really want to change that if i can. There has been one of two little dogs that don't bring this prey drive (if that's the right term) out in her, the only thing i can identify is that they don't bark and stand their ground when she runs to them, the others either bark at her or run away and she chases them.

She's fine with a muzzle, we got a basket muzzle similar to the one in the video straight away and she wears that all the time when we go to the park although i still don't let her off the leash.

With de-sensitizing her, the difficulty is finding dogs who aren't walking. I'll keep working on phase 2 obedience but what is the best strategy to decondition her to small dogs? My in-laws have two Maltese X shitzu, should i work with them and ask that they simply use their dogs as a distraction? How do you de-condition dog aggressive dogs when you rehab them? Otherwise i can't think of a way that i can find a dog, get a distance away and do obedience without the dog either constantly moving away or closer to us.

The other difficulty is she refuses food when we step outside the house, she loves sticks and balls but that doesn't work with the muzzle. Or should i keep the muzzle of when she's training on-leash?

Sorry for the millions of questions, i really want to get this right and i can't have another stuff up if i'm training her around other dogs.

Dan

[Teresa]

[COLOR="rgb(0, 0, 0)"]She's fine with a muzzle, we got a basket muzzle similar to the one in the video straight away and she wears that all the time when we go to the park although i still don't let her off the leash.[/COLOR]
Great Work!

With de-sensitizing her, the difficulty is finding dogs who aren't walking. I'll keep working on phase 2 obedience but what is the best strategy to decondition her to small dogs? My in-laws have two Maltese X shitzu, should i work with them and ask that they simply use their dogs as a distraction? How do you de-condition dog aggressive dogs when you rehab them? Otherwise i can't think of a way that i can find a dog, get a distance away and do obedience without the dog either constantly moving away or closer to us.
If she is in the learning phase of a command, we cannot expect her to perform when she is reacting to a trigger. For example, don't ask her to sit when she is reacting to a dog, if she doesn't already understand Phase 2 corrections for the complete sits. In addition, any training scenario you set up should be set up for success. It would be ok to use one of your in-laws dogs as a distraction, but remember the formula for success with counterconditioning and desensitizing....work just below threshold for reaction. Distance is your friend when setting up these scenarios. Definitely have Manny muzzled and on leash, and keep the other dog at a distance where Manny notices it, but is still willing to work for you. As she becomes more comfortable, and focuses more attention on you and the obedience that you are doing with her, then GRADUALLY decrease the distance between her and the other dog. Your goal is not to get all the way up to the other dog in one session, but to make any progress from your starting point. You may not decrease the distance at all during a training session, but rather work for more focus and less reactivity by the end of the session.


The other difficulty is she refuses food when we step outside the house, she loves sticks and balls but that doesn't work with the muzzle. Or should i keep the muzzle of when she's training on-leash?
If she is refusing food, you can try training before feeding her breakfast or dinner, when she is most hungry and make sure to use high value treats (hot dogs, chicken, etc) I would keep the muzzle on her when training around or having the possibility for encountering other dogs right now. As you get further into the training, and she is more reliable you can determine whether or not to muzzle her.

Keep us posted on your progress!

Best,
Teresa

[ddpowell]

Hi Teresa,

We thought we'd take Manny to an obedience school but they're purely positive trainers which is hard when we've started on phase 2 exercises and have a prong collar. They HATE the prong collar and can't believe there's any way to use it humanely. very frustrating!

Then our local council has ordered us to have another trainer come and consult with us and she also uses purely positive methods. She specialises in 'reactive' dogs so i'm hoping we'll at least get to start desensitizing Manny with some other dogs around.

Any tips for dealing with purely positive based trainers when we want to use the foundation style?

Cheeers

Dan

[Teresa]

Using only a reward based system is not a bad thing. It just has it's limitations. We have found that the gentle correction used in phase 2&3 increases reliability in situations where it is necessary to maintain a well controlled dog, ie aggression.

See how your training sessions go with the new trainer. Desensitizing and counterconditioning is always beneficial, so I can't see how it would hurt if the trainer is knowledgable. And you can certainly do no harm to your dog by trying her methods. The risk lies in whether Manny continues to be aggressive in situations , where potential harm could come to other dogs.

I would continue following the videos in the self help section to progress through phase 2&3 on your own. If your trainer is open minded they should not be averse to you using this method in addition to their training. Perhaps you could show how correction is given gently and with a specific command structure to help the dog avoid correction.

Best of luck, and keep is updated!

Teresa

[ddpowell]

Thanks Teresa,

Their methods are fine, but the obedience school isn't really willing to do much work in addressing the desensitizing issue but it's been a good experience.

This other trainer comes next wed so i'll let you know how we go. It's not so much that we don't want to use purely positive methods its that they are so bullish in telling us we're basically teaching Manny that seeing a dog = pain if the collar is on.

She's gotten the phase one stuff down - here's a little clip of her doing the very basics without any food reward, just pats and praise

[Teresa]

Great work with her! And she's a pretty girl too. I am partial to black shepherds

Dogs can be more reactive on a pinch collar if not used properly (ie. Big leash pops) But using the methods that you see in the leash ninja video then you can avoid this.

Good luck with the new trainer.
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