Need a training plan

[electric]

Hello,

First of all thanks for this great service. I really like the website and videos (the whiteboards are great!) and love what you do for the dogs.

I read through the materials on the site but I feel I need a bit of guidance. I'm not certain which order to do things. I think I need pack structure work and I know I need to do obedience work.

Of course I am here because I have a problem. I began fostering and rescuing dogs because I really love dogs and wanted to help them, but unfortunately I don't seem to be doing as well as I thought I could!

In a nutshell there are 3 dogs in the home, two males and a female, all are neutered adults. They are all well behaved in the home; the female has some anxiety issues such as chewing and crying/digging in her crate and sensitivity to noise. The main problem I need to address is aggression toward strangers (dogs and people), mostly with the males. (I can tell more about their histories if needed).

I understand dog body language well, and I am doing most of the things in the pack structure already. My dogs have never been allowed on furniture, I own their toys except for the very low value nylabones they chew on when I watch TV, I do leave those laying around often and they have them in their crates. They go outside on a schedule and not whenever they feel like it. They aren't allowed to beg for food. I did crate & rotate for a long time and still do when the dogs are unsupervised. They do charge ahead of me on stairs and doorways so I guess that is one thing to work on. The dogs are great with me, I can groom them, hand-feed them, give them their toys and take them away, if they try to bug me for mealtimes etc I tell them to go away and they do; really no complaints on the home life.

In regards to the aggression though, if anyone they don't know comes to the door they get aggressive and do not calm down. I have to crate them and they will carry on while in the crates and freak out if they can see the person until the person leaves. This also happens in the yard if anyone walks by. On walks the one male especially will freak if he so much as sees another dog on the horizon and he becomes hard to control; he barks aggresively at people as well. I use a prong collar on all my dogs but have to be careful as the other male will redirect. The one who redirects will also attack my other dogs when he gets upset due to adrenaline. I have not walked the males in a long time because of the issues.

So I need help formulating a training plan. I want to be a proper leader for my dogs and have them respect me.

Question 1: I don't know how I would exercise them if I have to keep them on a leash all the time. Currently they run together in the yard (supervised). I assume I can no longer let them out together to play. So exercise suggestions are appreciated (I cannot walk enough to walk all 3 in one day, plus they are not ready for that and neither am I). Also how to desensitize them to obeying me and being in public?

Question 2; Should I do pack structure first and then later start obedience training? What steps would be involved in increasing pack structure? At what point will I be ready to start obedience?

Question 3: I'm also wondering what to do when my dogs "go off" - have him on leash and yank him? I've been trying to manage things by keeping them controlled and away from stimulation but I can't control everything - such as neighbours walking by, someone knocking at the door etc.

I am just educating myself right now and haven't started any real training. I don't have a muzzle yet, but I figure that's where I should start. Thoughts?

I'm sorry there are so many questions. I just really don't want to fail these dogs. Everything I have tried so far doesn't work and nobody is happy.

[Mike D'Abruzzo]

Hi,

Glad you like the website!

To answer your questions:

1. What kind of dogs are these? Do they like to play tug? Tug is a great game to play and tire them out if you do it properly. I would definitely suggest doing ONE at a time, but 5 minutes of tug can be better than a 30 minute walk. There is a video in the video section showing an example of how to play.

2. Definitely focus on pack structure. But it is OK to start phase 1 exercises. In the aggression rehab section there are further details under "establishing the relationship". It really isn't going to be so much about who goes through doors first, it really is more about who is making the initiatives and who is "in control" of all important. Working on "climb" in a very technical manner is a great place to start. Be sure there are no distractions when you start. Everything you will need around the house will branch off of that one command. We'll coach you through it.

3. Definitely do not "yank" for anything. Especially with a prong collar you may fire the dogs up more. Stay calm and try to avoid situations for now. If you can't avoid a situation drag away in as calm a matter as possible.

Get muzzles for sure and start doing "party hat" drills. It sounds like you have a big project ahead of you so don't overwhelm yourself. Find a way to manage the situation and keep the dogs and yourself safe while we chip away. The muzzles will help take away the option of redirecting when we work on the leash walking. In the meantime, find time to teach what the word "heel" means , with NO distractions. You can do this around your house - one dog at a time. Don't expect it to work on the outside yet. Everything is phase 1 at this point. This means teach what words mean and teach simple concepts that we will combine when you are ready for phase 2.

Here the youtube version of the muzzle for a reminder (there is another example in the video section:



Here is the phase 1 Heel. Start here on heel:



Don't forget to work on CLIMB (in the phase 1 videos)

Keep in touch!!

[electric]

Hi,

Glad you like the website!

To answer your questions:

1. What kind of dogs are these? Do they like to play tug? Tug is a great game to play and tire them out if you do it properly. I would definitely suggest doing ONE at a time, but 5 minutes of tug can be better than a 30 minute walk. There is a video in the video section showing an example of how to play.

Hi Mike, thank you for your great reply!

The dogs are:

1) Female, Australian Shepherd/Lab mix, about 50-55 lbs, adopted as an adult from a shelter 5 years ago so she would be around 7-8 yrs, no major issues, a bit of separation anxiety. Her I can walk if need be, she's an easy dog. She will play fetch with a ball as well.

2) Male, Louisiana Catahoula (long term fostering him for a rescue) he is 5 years old and 65 lbs. Won't play tug, but loves to catch snow that I throw. I don't know if this is a good idea for sustained exercise because he does a lot of jumping. He's very reactive/adrenaline dog, with redirected aggression, will attack my other dogs if he gets too excited. Won't play tug. He does okay in public and is controllable, I could walk him but I prefer not to as it does get stressful for us both. Hates the car. Now that I think about it he will play ball too. He's never tried to bite me but has pain aggression and will snap if given a needle or I accidentally quick his nails for example.

3) Male, mixed breed, could be anything, probably boxer mixed with about 10 other things, age 3 years, 65 lbs. He was the pup of a foster I had that was pregnant, so I raised him from birth (did many things right and some things wrong). My plan was to train him for competition obedience and agility but I received bad training advice, or what I think was bad advice, and he grew up to be too aggressive. Won't play tug, not very toy driven, not interested in fetch. I can do anything to this dog, I trust him to never bite me or attack one of my other dogs but this is the dog I can't walk or trust in public, VERY aggressive toward strange dogs and mistrustful of strangers. Barks at children. Has nipped at 3 people (all 3 were reaching toward him as he was in full aggressive display and either restrained by leash or confined - really makes you wonder about people). His exercise to date has been running in the yard with whatever various dogs I had. He's always been excellent with his "pack members". I started training him for OB when he was a pup. He has pretty good phase 1 (with treats) sit, stay, stand and down with no body language and with mild distraction.

I just want to clarify you think it's best not to allow the dogs to play together for the time being. The 3-year old is the one I'm unsure about how I will exercise him. Tug was a good idea but these guys aren't interested, and I can play ball in the yard with the other two. Any other suggestions?

2. Definitely focus on pack structure. But it is OK to start phase 1 exercises. In the aggression rehab section there are further details under "establishing the relationship". It really isn't going to be so much about who goes through doors first, it really is more about who is making the initiatives and who is "in control" of all important. Working on "climb" in a very technical manner is a great place to start. Be sure there are no distractions when you start. Everything you will need around the house will branch off of that one command. We'll coach you through it.

Thanks for the advice! I read through the pack structure and about making initiatives, and I feel that I already do those things. However, my dogs' behaviour suggests that I am missing something. I feel like the devil must be in the details here. For example, my dogs go out on a schedule, but since I work consistent hours their schedule is the same every day and the dogs anticipate going out by both the time and my actions. For instance, they know they go outside before bedtime after my TV show is done. So when i switch off the TV and it's around the right time everyone gets up and gets excited. Is it OK for them to anticipate things like this? Is there anything else I should be doing? Crating them more?

One other very important thing is that I have a friend/dogsitter who spends time with the dogs while I am at work. He spoils and coddles the dogs more than I do. I told him, for example, that he should not give exuberant greetings when he arrives and the dogs get all wild. He tells me he "forgets" that rule sometimes. He also has a clear favourite dog (the 3-year-old male) that he pets the most often and buys the most toys for, etc. When he walks them he allows them to walk in front. I know the dogs need consistency and I wonder if I don't allow my friend to sit for/walk the dogs for a while if that will help solve some of the problems? Maybe I'm grasping at straws? I really want to do the right things for these dogs. I want my foster to finally find a home and to be in control of my living situation and I will do what it takes to make it right.

I'll start heel and climb this week. Thanks for the videos, I saw them in the video section and I'll review them many more times.

3. Definitely do not "yank" for anything. Especially with a prong collar you may fire the dogs up more. Stay calm and try to avoid situations for now. If you can't avoid a situation drag away in as calm a matter as possible.

Gotcha.

Get muzzles for sure and start doing "party hat" drills. It sounds like you have a big project ahead of you so don't overwhelm yourself. Find a way to manage the situation and keep the dogs and yourself safe while we chip away. The muzzles will help take away the option of redirecting when we work on the leash walking. In the meantime, find time to teach what the word "heel" means , with NO distractions. You can do this around your house - one dog at a time. Don't expect it to work on the outside yet. Everything is phase 1 at this point. This means teach what words mean and teach simple concepts that we will combine when you are ready for phase 2.

I'll buy a muzzle sometime this week. I found a store that carries one that looks like the one in your video. We'll do heel and climb but only in the house.

Thank you SO much for your help and advice. You have no idea what a relief it is to have hope! There are no local trainers in my city that do any sort of behavioural work so this is a real help, and the videos are great.

Thanks for the starting point. We'll begin fun OB work this week.

[electric]

Hi Mike, I just wanted to give you a quick update on how things are going.

I ordered a plastic basket muzzle like the one in the video from our local pet store. (They didn't have the right size). It hasn't come in yet.

We started with Phase 1 heel (all 3 dogs). It has been interesting. I don't have any room, so I'm using a partially renovated space in my basement. We are trying to do like in the video. Hopefully we'll all get the hang of it soon. Each dog is having challenges in different areas of the heel so we will work on this. I'm keeping it fun with lots of praise and treats. They seem to be enjoying it. I'm adding other commands they already know like sit and down as well.

One thing is I've always used "okay" as a release word, so now I'm doing "okay! free!" so they hopefully learn what "free" means too.

Can you tell me the long-term significance of "climb"? Mainly I'm wondering if I can use another word, like "up" if it will always be used for an elevated object or "place" if it will eventually be for a rug or dog bed.

I've acquired a wood platform like in the climb video, but I really have nowhere to put it at the moment as the floor in that room is only halfway finished. Hopefully we can start using it soon.

Thanks for the help.

[Mike D'Abruzzo]

Sounds like you are off to a good start. You don't have to use the word "climb". Technically you can use any word you want for any command as long as you are consistent and none of the commands sound too similar.

The real significance of the command that I call "climb" (and can be called anything) is that it teaches the dog all the rules that he/she will need to know for all the other commands and gets you in the habit of using those rules smoothly.

It is the first command that the dog does because they have to. It teaches the dog the concept of a warning "no", resistance training (to ignore the leash and concentrate on the command), direction (when you point to something), that they can fix themselves if they mess up, etc..

We teach this on the climb because it is very easy to walk a dog back onto a climb platform compared to keeping them in a sit, down, or other more rigid command.

Once you teach the dog all the concepts of the climb command and also teach the dog the meaning of the more rigid commands - you can combine the concepts of "climb" to these commands and the dog doesn't have to relearn that they must stay in the sit or down command until you "free" or even the "come" or "heel" until you free them. Everything will follow the same sequences and be easier for you and the dog to learn. "Climb" is the command that I spend the most time making my clients master before moving on because it makes everything else so much easier.

I hope this helps!

[electric]

Hi Mike,

thanks for your reply. I'll have to figure out which word I can use Thanks for the detailed explanation.

I thought you'd like to read a progress update.

First an amusing story. I was sick for the past week with a bad cold. I tried to skip a couple days of training but the dogs were onto me. My female came up to me the one night while I was resting, at around the time we normally do our exercises. She acted like she had to go to the bathroom (which I knew was not the case because she never has to go to the bathroom!) or like she expected something to happen. I was puzzled for a while until she led me to the area where we practise and danced around. I was surprised and didn't realize how much my dogs were enjoying the training!

We have been focusing on sit, down, and stand which the dogs mostly already know. I'm practising phasing out any body language on those commands, which I have already done with my youngest (and most aggressive) male as he was originally supposed to be a competition dog.

I'm introducing stay and heel. At first the dogs were very grabby with the heel and always trying to take the treat out of my hand. My fingers were raw by the end. I think I have found a good system though and we are all catching on.

Soon I would like to introduce "climb" and the "come" command. they have all had brief introductions to "come" during their lives with me (they have all taken obedience classes) but I haven't kept it up.

We are doing about 5 minutes of commands per dog per day. I hope that's enough. If I go longer the dogs start getting too focused on the treats and stop listening.

I guess we're still firmly entrenched in phase 1, and have yet to work on the climb due to lack of space at the moment. We have had another aggression incident with my youngest, and fence aggression remains a problem.

I will be curious when it's time to phase out the treats!

[Mike D'Abruzzo]

That's a funny story, but good to hear! The dogs should love training. Ideally you never want to completely phase out the treats - you would want to put the dogs on a random schedule, so that they never know when one might come. If you do this with the combination of discipline they learn in phase 2 - you will get the best of both worlds. This way your dogs will listen even if you don't necessarily have a treat or don't have the ability to make them do something.

These are all concepts found in the "dog training trinity" section of the obedience literature. Dogs will never do things for no reason in particular - and I always tell people there is no such thing as Lassie or Rin tin tin. even those dogs had a trainer standing on the other side of the camera that had the ability to motivate the dog using some form of operant conditioning.

It will always be a matter of simple science when gauging how reliable you want your dog to be. Here is our operant conditioning video to review 4 different ways that dogs learn (and maintain obedience):