A long lasted aggression problem

[jirasu]

Hi!



I have had aggression problems with our 4 years old wolfhybrid male for a long time now and am asking for quidance. I´ve red the triangle and am following the instructions to become a better leader. I´ve followed them already a while before reading the triangle but now my husband is doing it also.

So, our dog (we have 2, other is female) started growling and showing his teeth to us already over 1,5 years ago. He started suddenly to growl even if you slightly tried to pet him. Of course he had showed aggression before that but I myself didn´t "woke up" to realise it until he showed aggression towards me (has been my dog until I married with my husband about 2 months after things escalated with the dog). I realised that he had growled to people before 1 years old, if felt threatened. That happened rarely and other times he has been just fine and "my dog". Maybe that´s why I was so blind to his aggressive behaviour for such a long time.
He also became dog aggressive after being attacked by 3 dogs (all different occasions). He also wants to dominate all other dogs if encountered but isn´t like a maniac willing to attack.

We have tried (mainly I at first) to work with the problem and are now following the foundation triangle. He seems to be acting now really submissively but doesn´t want to be touched most of the time and shows it by growling. We don´t touch him unless he sits etc. but he may growl sometimes between obedience training (generally he really likes it) or when someone walks towards (without any attentions to come to him) him or tells him to come.
I haven´t take food away from him, sometimes just added some really good into his bowl. Still he showed food aggression first time a couple of months ago but does it nowadays quite rearely. But you can see the food aggression when he has bones etc. (I don´t give him bones anymore because of that). He seems to have better and worse days with his aggression.
And he growls to our now 1 years old little girl, it started when she started crawling. We have teached him to leave when our girl comes but sometimes he still growls (threatened: hackles up, ears back). He has given his way 4-5 times with his tail slightly curved upwards but has immediately lowered when vocally corrected (I use a "tsssst" sound). But still.

Outdoors he behaves usually really good but may growl to people if they clearly try to approach (mainly kids who come close before I have the time to do anything). And he doesn´t avoid being touched by me outdoors but has even snapped my husband when they were on walk together (he tried to solve the leash from the bitches legs).
He also behaves better in my parents house where is much more pepole. But he´s also much more on guard there and follows us everywhere.

The worst thing is that when the problems really escalated I tried physically to control him. It´s the first time I´ve had a dog with aggression problems and I did it all wrong. I put him down with force and slapped him, touched him in anger and faced the aggression with my own aggression. And what´s even worse is that I´ve been with dogs all my life and could quite clearly see when see was just defensive and fearfull, and still acted the way I did.

I stopped behaving like a monster and wan´t to make everything good again and have been working for it for a while. I just need quidance how to earn his trust and respect again, I´m afraid that I will rush things. About corrections: when he growls I immediately vocally correct him, calmly and without any threath, if it doesn´t work after 3 times I use a vibration collar (3 times) and if that doen´s work I calmly and gently put him to lay on the ground till he stops: He always calms down quickly when on his side. But should I correct him at all? We are just in the beginning of the training. He is quite obedient and quite easy to train, but should I use the corrections (stage 2) at all in training?

I know this was a long letter and my english isn´t perfect but I´m thankful for any advice. He´s a great dog and really important to us.

[mojomoo]

I have no advice for you but so sorry you are going through this! I used to have a wolf/chesapeake retriever/german shepard mix, quit the combination! The mother was a chesapeake the father a wolf/german shepard of my dog and she had aggression issues to teenagers and actually bit 2 kids. I was lucky back in those days (17 years ago) that no one sued me, she also bit one other dog. If I had her now I would of did things alot differently and there's more help for issues like this now than back then. She lived to be the ripe age of 14 years. I'm interested in what they have to say about your topic, and good luck with your beautiful dog

[jirasu]

Thank you for your encouragement!
I forgott to ad that he is nowadays much better. You can now pet him quite nicely if you do it without too much a hush and making it "a big deal". He has growled a lot more towards my husband but it redused a lot after he read the triangle. He sometimes growles more to me now (defensively most of them time). But we try to avoid situations where he can show his aggression and make sure that he can´t get nothing for free.

And he wants to sosialize with us more, though most of the time there is avoidance. I don´t fear that he will bite me even when it´s question about food or when I put him to lie down. But he has snapped my husband and there´s not a big step for really biting. A veterinary behaviorist described it as a "conflict aggression" (hasn´t seen the dog in real life).

But altough things have gone better, we still have big problems.

[Mike D'Abruzzo]

Hi,

Sounds like you need some guidance with this guy. That's what we are here for. Good news is that it sounds like you are on the right track and understand how to troubleshoot and use the triangle well. The best way to handle this is if we break it down into little steps to make sure we don't miss anything and understand the problems as much as possible since this is a more complex high difficulty one. I am confident that you can make a lot of improvement.

First thing that popped in my head reading this, is that you must be sure to manage the situation carefully with the baby. Everything you wrote about this dog seems very manageable and mostly describes a conflicted and somewhat fearful dog that needs some guidance, structure, and trust. We can do that together, but the tail up and hackles with the baby is definitely the most alarming thing to make a priority to manage since that is potentially a dangerous situation for the baby. The language tells us that your hybrid feels threatened, but will handle it in a more assertive way if left to his own devices. Do not allow for any chances and don't let guard down with any situation where the baby may be present with him. Even one bite can be devastating at that age. This is something that can often be rectified/managed easily with patience and the right plan, but for now be sure to not allow any situation where there may be room for error.

But to start on troubleshooting we will start from the bottom of the triangle and work our way up, and that begins with Knowledge of what we are starting with. My first impression is that your hybrid is exhibiting a lot of primitive behaviors, which although not easy to deal with, is at least somewhat predictable, makes sense, and is "normal" for the less domesticated side of him. What is very positive here is that we are seeing a lot of bite inhibition and good use of the growl from him. Therefore, to answer your question... never correct for the growl, as without the growl you are removing an important part of his vocabulary away from him which can mean a lot of things. He is telling you that he does not want to bite at the very least. That is good as it prevents bites. It is better to focus on what is causing him to growl in the first place.
Second point I would like to stress is to understand that he is a hybrid and will never be a labrador without a brain transplant. So, if we come up with reasonable goals and expectations for him it will prevent frustration as we move forward and will help bring him to his fullest potential.

Off the top of my head for a plan it looks like we will need to build a lot of trust with this hybrid. We do this by being predictable and teaching him that we understand what he is telling us, especially if he is scared. Avoid physical corrections at all costs at this point.

We will need to continue to show him that we want to lead. We may have to tweak some little things. For instance if there is growling for petting still - do not pet. If you are not sure he is craving the comfort of physical contact don't give it. And when you feel he is at a deficit, invite it with your palms below his chin - but he must come for it and you must be sure that he is obeying because his motivation is affection. To pet him after he sat for a treat or to pet him because he sat to avoid a consequence will be counterproductive. He needs physical contact from you but only you will know what is the right balance. the rules of "establishing the relationship" in the aggression rehab section go into slightly more detail then the triangle "pack structure" alone.

Let me know what you think so far and we'll keep moving forward together.

[jirasu]

Hi,



I have tried to attach a few videos our dog but the files are wrong kind. But I try again a bit later with my friends help.

Everything you wrote maked sence and I took of the vibration collar. And you´re also right in that that he is really predictable and easy to read. It helps a lot.

But as you I´m also most concerned how he reacts towards our girl. He seems to think the baby as a part of the pack and greets her with a kiss when we come home. But yesterday he again gave his way with the tail slightly upwards, and hackles down. He uses calming singnals with our baby as with us but I haven´t seen really submissive behavior towards the girl:He has many times given his way with a low tail and sometimes hackles up, but, many times he like "dances" away with stiff hindquarters.

We talked a long time with my husband yesterday from the fact that we have to have the same rules when dealing with the dogs: Then he also told me that actually the dog has bitten him 4 times (and snapped the air several times): when trying to put him to the yard when he didn´t want to, when our bitch was in heat and my husband stopped the male from going to the female, when he was bend over the male and trying to get him up when he was afraid and the 1 time the leash was in a mess. His skin was never broken but still.

The 3 first ones are something my husband could have avoided if he would have acted differently but the last one is the one I´m most worried of. That one I knew of but didn´t now until yesterday, the details.
The female had been playing and the leash had gone around the males back legs so that he couldn´t stand correctly. My husband tried to solve the leash, the dog growled and then attacked. It wasn´t a bite, the dog grabbed and shaked my husbands arm. The dog dropped the glove when my husband vocally corrected him, right afterwards the male started to play with the glove (shaking and throwing it).

I know that the grab-and-shake is thougt to be really serious and I´m extremely worried about it. He´s so submissive with me that it´s hard for me to imagine. He has never bitten me, but, has snarled to me several times when I with force put him to lay down. He didn´t have the chance to bite me but if he would have? Propably. But with him it´s clearly the last choice and that´s why I was so shocked to hear that he had "killed" my husbands arm. Still I´m not worried him attacking me or the baby but the situation is even more serious as I thought. And I of course keep my eye on the baby the whole time.

He hasn´t growled to me at all the last week but that´s due the fact that I stopped handling him when he didn´t want it. He still growls to our baby usually every day at least a couple of times when giving his way. One day I didn´t vocally correct him from rising his tail and right a way at the following times qAI could see that the tail rose more, when I didn´t interfere with the behavior.
So, I have today corrected him from the dominant gestures, but not from the growling. Is this ok?

AND, he´s not castrated. Don´t ask me why not, stubidity from my part? It´s going to be done next monday. I hope, it can help with how he reacts our little girl.

And you helping us really keeps me hope.

[Mike D'Abruzzo]

Neutering will be a good thing, but I'm sure you know that it won't make a huge change in behavior - especially at 4 years of age. But, it can possibly help with the intensity that testosterone adds to the equation. Testosterone is never a good thing when it comes to aggression issues.

I would say you did the right thing for verbally correcting the posturing toward the baby and not the growl. It is important either way to direct the hybrid away from the baby when he feels unsure to give him an alternative behavior.

Regardless, as a professional I am very concerned about the baby - and do stress keep maintaining supervision with a plan that makes it impossible for him to get a bite on the baby. This is definitely considered a high risk situation.

The shake bite toward you husband sounds like a more severe correction. Especially because of the circumstances surrounding the incident The quick bites that don't break the skin are generally referred to as "hits" with the wolves and hybrids. It shows how they do have great bite inhibition, but can obviously turn up the juice when they are trying to make a better point. But, keep in mind that the average domestic dog does not have triggers as easy as this. Generally, you can untangle a dog without worrying about getting bit.

I definitely think this hybrid has high hopes of being managed and trained with patience, but as a father myself I would never trust him around anyone but informed ADULTS.

If you are going to keep this hybrid I would recommend getting him desensitized to a comfortable basket muzzle to be worn around the baby at all times while supervised.

You have to keep in mind that if it is easy for adults to make mistakes that cause a trigger, it is likely a child will cause a trigger.

If you get him on a muzzle you can start some counter-conditioning work around the baby while you work on obedience for control. This can always help to put him at ease around the baby with time, but i firmly believe it will always be part of a management plan to make mistakes impossible via a muzzle when they are together. At least for the near future and toddler years before you reevaluate. Right now is the statistically highest probability for a tragedy to happen.

What do you feed him? Is he treat motivated at all?

[jirasu]

I believe it will be quite easy to get him accustomed wearing a muzzle in a couple of days.

Because he has shown some food aggression (growling if there is something valuable enough) I´m only (hand)feeding dryed kibles to him and am slowly moving to better stuff.

So, you can quite easily motivate him with some treats. I don´t use toys etc. as a reward cause he submisses so easily and it comes quickly counterproductive.