+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 9 of 9

Food Aggression / Dominance related Aggression

This is a discussion on Food Aggression / Dominance related Aggression within the Aggression Rehab and Management forums, part of the Self Help Dog Training Forums category; I have a 19 month old intact Chesapeake male. He has been trained for hunt test competition since he was ...

  1. #1
    penmar is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    2

    Default Food Aggression / Dominance related Aggression

    I have a 19 month old intact Chesapeake male. He has been trained for hunt test competition since he was a puppy. Obedience is good. He is a hard charger, high prey drive, smart with lots of stamina. He comes from high quality field trial lines with well known parentage. Both parents are house dogs as well as trial.

    Over the past months as he entered adolescence, he has developed dominance related aggression (or so I believe) and food related aggression issues. He has never shown any aggression towards other dogs or other people. In fact, he is very outgoing socially, and is not at all possessive of his toys or nylabones. He was well socialized as a pup, with both people and other animals. I live in Los Angeles, so he has been exposed to a great variety of environments, and does well in them all.

    At about 15 months of age, I noticed one evening that he was limping/pacing, holding his front paw up off the ground, favoring it heavily and obviously in discomfort. When I went to examine his paw, he growled at me -- he would not let me near the injured leg/paw. It appeared that his paw pad was torn, but I couldn't get a good look. He licked it all night in his crate, but by morning, he was no longer limping and was walking fine. I assumed that it was injury/pain aggression that had caused him to growl. I now realize that by backing off in response to his growls, I failed to show leadership and taught him that he could manipulate me as such.

    At 16 months of age, he was on his dog bed (in living room, not in his crate where he mostly lives) but with his head up and alert. I approached him and bent over to pet him. He stiffened as I tried to push him over to pet his stomach, and then growled. Without any physical form of control over him, I backed off and tried to diffuse the situation by calling him to the door and making him sit as if to go out. He did so with his tail wagging. I put his pinch collar on and did some easy heeling, praising him for his good work, and then I put him in a down-stay on his bed (in hindsight, a poor choice). I misread him at this point, assuming he was fine in his down-stay, but he obviously was not -- still very stressed, breaking his stay and trying to run past me towards his crate. I was sitting on a footstool and gave him a verbal "eh!" for breaking, and as he passed me, he got "trapped" by furniture and he responded by biting my arm. Again, I now realize my many mistakes in this event -- bending over him to pet him when he didn't desire it, trying to push him over, backing off when he growled, etc.

    Believing it to be a dominance issue, I responded by upping the level of general control over all aspects of his general life (already a very controlled life) and continued to further reinforce the established pack structure in daily life (he "earns" everything). Basically, except for exercise and training (field and obedience), he was mostly in his crate, so I had no idea whether these efforts were helping the issue or not as I did not test him in the same situation that prompted the bite.

    I also began collaring him to a post on a table and touching him all over. At first, he was not comfortable in this restrained position, but has gotten much better and now enjoys it. Initially, when I lifted his front paws, he would begin to show warning signs -- nose twitching or body stiffening. I taught him to "shake" with both paws with food rewards and he now has no problem with me handling his paws (he was touched and handled regularly as a puppy to prepare for vet exams, etc.) So there was some progress in modifying his behavior.

    My layman thinking is that this behavior is a combination of an adolescent male challenging my authority along with perhaps a negative association from the prior injury which triggers it (when he growled at me with pain aggression, he learned that he could control/dominate me in that situation).

    Recently (at 19 months of age), we returned from a long day of field training. As is customary, I fed him in the corner of the kitchen, with him sit-staying as always before receiving his meal. Because he had started to show food aggression by stiffening or even growling a bit when I got close to him, I just leave him alone as he inhales his meal in 20 seconds or so. In this instance, I reached over behind him for a paper towel and inadvertently pushed a chair into his rear, pushing him aside. He stiffened and growled and I immediately backed away (he was facing away from me as he ate). As I did so, I knocked over an empty plastic trash bin that was sitting in the kitchen. He then growled much louder, turned away from his partially eaten meal, and came around the table at me (maybe 10 feet from his dish). I was able to kick the trash bin into him to slow him down, and then grabbed a vacuum cleaner to put between us. I sent him to his crate and he complied.

    Obviously, this is a serious situation; I am well aware of that. Opinions range, but the consensus is that he is exhibiting dominant behavior, testing my place in the pack structure. Regarding the food aggression, I believe his breeding is sound, that he was fed properly as a puppy, and I have never messed with his food as he ate, other than always making him sit stay while i put the food down. I've been around the breed for a long time and such behavior (testing, not biting, as well as tendencies to resource guard) is not uncommon for a Chessie adolescent, but this situation is new to me and is clearly unacceptable. The food aggression issue can be managed by feeding him in his crate, but that won't eliminate the underlying issue.

    I live in a very small home and do not have children. However, I do have a fiance that is not a dog trainer, and I certainly do not feel comfortable putting her in a position of managing a dog with such known issues, even if for only a day when I'm out of town.

    I'm interested in the "foundation" approach to such food related aggression and dominance related aggression issues.

    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
    Mike D'Abruzzo's Avatar
    Mike D'Abruzzo is offline Administrator
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    296

    Default

    From the bit of history I'm reading - the issues seem to be resource guarding, dominance aggression, fear aggression, and lower than average bite inhibition.

    Here is some troubleshooting for you:

    level 2 - health:
    - Check to make sure you are feeding a food with a good protein source (not corn,wheat,soy,etc..) this can be connected with poor impulse control. fish oil is also thought to help with impulse control.
    - Without a doubt you should make an appointment to neuter. Testerosterone does add to the problem (anything dominance related) and most definitely part of the initial source, and although will not cure any issues to neuter now will take the edge off after a couple months. The fact that you haven't done anything horribly wrong with his upbringing and he is showing lower than average bite inhibition (which has a genetic connection) would make poor judgement for breeding and he already received the physical developmental benefits of staying intact. He will keep that. So there are only benefits to neutering.
    level 3 - attitude:
    - Difficult to tell from your history, but rough handling or intimidation tatics can make him more defensive (I'm going to get him before he gets me). You shouldn't even have to raise your voice with him or startle him verbally with the right plan.
    level 5 - pack structure:
    - If you weren't following info similar to the info in this section it could have sent mixed messages during the time period preceding the incidents. I would particularly go over the info in the aggression rehab section "Establishing the relationship"
    level 9 - obedience:
    - would be sure to use an obedience method with minimal force, warnings, etc.. I would train him to a formal phase 3 off-leash "place" (the down at the end isn't necessary).
    - I would train him to wear a muzzle first with treat hole in the front.
    - Use the muzzle while practicing obedience fairly - if we make a misjudgement and he growls or goes to bite we can handle the situation calmly without looking intimidated and without using force back (best by redirecting his attention to something he likes - sometimes I just say "free" and act happy to diffuse). If you do all the layers before this and you are training in a balanced way with both reward and gentle dicsipline it is rare you will see any aggression, but put saftey messures in place.
    - For now feed in the kennel, but after you have trained him to a realiable place, you should put the food on the place and send him to it. After he finishes eating - he has to wait for his "free" to be released. This bit of reverse pscychology works good for that type of thing. You are forcing him to eat and he has to wait for your que to leave the bowl instead of him thinking you want to challenge him for the bowl. when you "free" him give him a treat and ignore his empty bowl until he is not around for now.
    layer 10 - desensitizing:
    - sounds like some fear stuff with you touching injured areas. He did show normal warning with the paw. This isn't necesarily dominace based (when you are dealing with an injury or fear)and can be survival instinct kicking in. The wrong thing to do would be to force yourself upon him and ignore the growls. Respecting a growl when it comes to a fear has nothing to do with how he will perceive your pack status (except for in a more trusting way). If you don't respect the growl, he can feel more insecure about your presence and go directly to the bite if you are near him when he feels threatened (his bites all sound defensive - the first seemed to be to avoid a correction and the second seemed to be a "I'm going to get you before you get me" thing. It may have initially started off as resource guarding, but the loud noise and bump I think he perceived as a threat toward him and not his food). Also, don't think the posting him is a good idea unless you truly believe he is enjoying it at this point (then it is fine). If there is any doubt that he wants to be touched be sure to add something positive such as treats when you do this if the touching in itself doesn't seem rewarding.
    In this level you most likely will need to only do counterconditioning, but only if that isn't working by itself we may want to consider an extinction technique which is along the lines of ignoring the aggression (in a safe way) and calmly showing him a better behavior (such as a calming signal instead of a growl when he is nervous). but that is a much more difficult technique - that we can discuss when you get there. This is a big project that takes patience. But, you will be surprised how much of this stuff works it way out if you start out on the bottom of the "triangle" and patiently work yourself up with a new relationship and plan.

    Highly recommend getting started with a going away party for his testicles.



    Hope this isn't too confusing - please respond back with thoughts and questions. no plan is set in stone, but this is a sample plan that I would go with at first. May take a couple months for you to build up to a desensitizing phase.

  3. #3
    penmar is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    2

    Default Thanks

    Appreciate your thoughts.

    Plan to neuter in two weeks when schedule permits.

    Have always fed quality protein source food with no corn and few grains, and given a fish oil cap every day since he was a pup.

    Never any history of rough handling. All obedience has been clearly teach first, then practice, then proof. E-collar (experienced user) for field work. Pressure has never been an issue in obedience or field work.

    Already has reliable "place" command, so have been trying your suggestion of feeding on place. He complies with no problems. He's also never had issues with his bowl once it is empty. I have also been putting him in down, placing food down, calling him to me (away from food), then sending to place to eat. So far, so good. Some reluctance to come at first, of course, but complies.

    Trained him to wear muzzle in case I feel the need for it or need to examine his body for injury, etc., though I feel no need for it during obedience. Again, never any issues during obedience or field training (I see the aggressive act following the broken "down stay" as the culmination of an escalating situation that started with his resistance to me pushing him over on his back, and not the result of our "normal" obedience training. I believe his resistance to being pushed over relates more to the resource guarding -- his body and place being the "resources" in this case.)

    Have been slowly getting closer with feedings on leash. Can now put the bowl between my feet as he eats. Not sure what I want to do next, because I'm sure if I continue, at some point I'm likely to cross a line and ellicit a growl or more; I then feel that I will have to correct.

    I could maintain the leashed feedings with me at his side (leash gives me control over him) and just be content to manage the situation as-is for the rest of his life. Or I could try to further countercondition.

    Curious about your possible "extinction technique"? Are you referring to flooding (as in your video)? Also, what is the "calming signal" instead of a growl that you mentioned?

    I feel we have made a lot of progress, slowly but surely, but want to continue in a good direction.

    Any thoughts for this "level 10 desensitizing" work?

  4. #4
    Mike D'Abruzzo's Avatar
    Mike D'Abruzzo is offline Administrator
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    296

    Default

    Thanks for the great troubleshooting! Helps a lot when someone understands how to use the system! Looks like you are moving in the right direction.

    First I will tell you a bit about extinction vs. flooding - because sometimes there is a gray area between the two. We are dealing with flooding mostly with fears. There are almost always better ways then flooding - although it can serve its purpose for certain situations. most of the "bad" behaviors such as biting we see with flooding are the result of "fight and flight" behavior. The dog isn't making much of a choice with flooding - sort of like some people may notice a spider crawling on their arm and without thinking they may swat it off - where other people may not be as scared and not automatically swat it off and make a decision to swat it off. That is where extinction comes in "with regards to biting behavior".

    With extinction the behavior is usually a learned behavior, the dog has the power of making a choice, and something that reinforces the behavior must be identified in order to use it.

    When we use extinction we simply are not reinforcing the learned behavior which was reinforced in the past- in this case the biting.

    I DO NOT regularly use the techniques in the video below for food aggression anymore - but in this video below you will see three different examples of extinction (no reinforcement for the biting) paired with positive reinforcement for the correct behavior of not showing the aggression. I have gotten many comments on this video in the past from youtube users calling it "flooding" - where in reality it is better classified as extinction since the dogs are making the choice to bite and it is not the result of a "fight or flight" response.



    In this video with Darren - I called it flooding because the dog is very fearful and I believe the biting was caused more by a "fight or flight" response. If he was not on a leash he would run away if you tried to touch him. If we want to get technical the dog is also receiving counter-conditioning because the touch that may have meant something bad in the past is being used to massage him in the video and I am also praising him which is a conditioned reinforcer for him (so I'm also using positive reinforcement for his act of not biting). So the video is more than pure flooding.



    There is a gray area with flooding vs extinction with these types of things when it is questionable if the dog is making an almost reflexive decision based on overwhelming fear or making a choice.

    I have found that it is rarely good to use positive punishment (correct) for aggression that has a fear base to it - such as food aggression. I believe most resource guarding is more fear related than dominance related. The most submissive dog in a pack may resource guard something in their possession toward any member of the pack. Aggression related toward resources are more dominance based when it involves a resource that no one has yet. For instance, you are walking down the street and there is a moldy hot dog on the sidewalk and you go to pick it up and your dog rushes to bite you before you can get it - this is better treated with positive punishment (if proper leadership and safety concerns are in place).

    Again, there are gray areas... the more "dominant prone" personality your dog has - resource guarding can be more intense, etc..

    It is better to treat resource guarding as a fear. You can "correct" for obedience associated with the management and guidance you give the dog - for instance sending him to a "place". But, you wouldn't want to correct for the fear manifesting. You would NEVER want to correct a growl. If the dog growls during treatment it is our mistake not the dog's. The dog is doing everything in their power to communicate that they do not want to bite.

    Calming behaviors are the polar opposite of the threats. These are behaviors like the dog yawning, licking its nose, turning its head away, etc.. these are behaviors that dogs may use to diffuse a situation without using threats. But, in order for them to work the dog cannot feel overly threatened AND they need to know that it will work. For instance, you are touching your dog's paw and he licks his nose - so you let go, or give him treat, or reinforce in some other way (even praise).

    As far as the food bowl goes, if he was my dog I would slow down. Unless, he looks very relaxed while he is eating I wouldn't have him eat food between my legs. To me it sounds kind of "dominating" on our part. where you are looking for him to feel secure and protected by you. Dogs just dont do stuff like that to eachother so its going to make no sense to him - especially if he is genetically prone to resource guarding. You are better off doing more gradual desensitizing to you being near and possibly counter-conditioning by tossing something good in his bowl when you are near.

    you can even do things near his EMPTY bowl by putting him on a place near the empty bowl, then gently brushing your body against him - then praising and throwing a treat in the bowl. WAY later you can combine things like that just after he finished eating, and then possibly while he is eating. But, don't feel any need to rush and don't get frustrated if you don't get 100% results. Steady improvement with his behavior and your relationship is what you are looking for.

    You will always know your dog the best - so the more you know of different techniques the better. All his aggression seems very defensive (amplified by his confidence to defend himself)- so getting to the heart of why he feels defensive is the direction of the best plan. Trying to knock down his confidence level to defend himself will make him potentially more defensive - especially with others that he think he can take on (like your fiance).

    keep in touch with your troubleshooting and thoughts!

  5. #5
    jocomoreno's Avatar
    jocomoreno is offline Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    64

    Default

    Hey Mike can I ask why you dont use the extinction/counter conditioning exercise for resource guarding anymore? Im referring to the one you used with rocky, the 1 year old bernese mt mix. In rockys situation how would you handle it differently now? I dont see anything wrong with that exercise and was actually thinking of applying it when i get my next resource guarding dog. Any thoughts?

  6. #6
    Mike D'Abruzzo's Avatar
    Mike D'Abruzzo is offline Administrator
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    296

    Default

    There are a few reasons why I don't handle food aggression the way you see with Rocky anymore.

    1. Safety - Any training that i do is going to stick best if it can be followed through with by the client. A large enough dog can break the bones in your hand despite the glove. I was very sore and injured every time I did that exercise with anything over the size of a puppy. None of my clients were willing or would I expect them to follow through with the exercise, so even if i got results with ME it is next to impossible to have the owners join in safely and willingly to give the dog a chance to generalize.

    2. reliable - Even with a lot of work, it isn't going to be 100 reliable to justify all the effort. Technically you would have to then add a consequence for the bite after taking the time to show the dog that the bite doesn't work and isn't necessary. Now we would be working all quadrants of operant conditioning and the most complete learning is taking place. I have done this and it DOES work with ME, but again going back to point 1, this will not generalize to the owner and it is so much work to do the right and is so stressful to the dog and trainer it is, in my opinion, not worth all the effort. Almost anything is possible in a controlled environment if you really pay attention to all angles of learning, but very difficult in the client's home.

    3. Counter productive if transfering the dog to other people/situations (unless there has been generalization which is next to impossible in reality) - When I would transfer the dog to the owner I would mainly have them work on the counter-conditioning part (like you see at the end of the video) of the exercise and not expect them to do anything with the extinction or punishment phases (if i did any). Since I don't expect them to do the "other stuff" I would rather them just work on 'conditioning' and desensitizing. We have to "counter-condition" to make up for the stress of past encounters. Whether it was the trainer or dog that came out on top of the "food battle" it is still stressful to the dog and can still result in aggression if the dog thinks they may be able to overcome the new "threat".

    4. better long term success with other plans - what it has all boiled down to is it has been better to work with mother nature than against it. Majority of food aggression cases are easily managed with a simpler plan that recognizes that the dog is genetically predisposed to this behavior and a smaller amount can be worked with a slightly more complex but still easier plan than what you see on Rocky. Rocky and a small amount of dogs are genetically predisposed to the behavior AND skip or cycle through very quickly normal steps in the aggression cycle.

    Understanding this and accepting the fact that I can go through life without sticking my hands in a dog's food bowl while they eat, just like I can accept the fact that I don't have to stick my hands in my sons cereal bowl while he eats makes the plans much easier. You have to remember that dogs, people, or any animal for that matter generally don't mess with each others food when it is in process of being eating. It is more natural to take the approach that we will act as the protector of the food so they don't have to worry about the role. My son doesn't have to worry about keeping his brother at bay from his pudding and my dog doesnt have to worry about the cats or people taking her food away. Aggression is not shown toward me because I am seen as on the same side as them. Everything i need to do with taking food away, preventing incidents, etc can be done through obedience and the "dog training trinity" without ever having to correct aggressive behavior. Only obedience has to be rewarded/corrected.

    I have actually changed the way I do things after working with a wolf and one of the worst food aggression cases I came across in my career. Figured if it works with them i can apply it to most cases.

    This all being said I will stick my hand in a new pups bowl to "condition" if there is not an active problem. But, for active behavior problems (meaning the behavior is a problem in the owner's eyes) I work with an approach that is more natural to the dog.

    We will be setting up "webinars" soon with Q and A. This is, by chance, the first subject we will cover. I think it is an important one.

    This dog (in the video below) latched on to a couple people for going near his food bowl before we got him. This gives an idea of how we start with a dog that has no trust whatsoever of people around their food. This dog will lie under my feet now and chew on a bone while i work on the computer. Start making a dog stay on a "place" while they eat and plan starts to evolve. Lots of options - the sky is the sky is the limit... recalls from the food, "leave it/ok's" with the food, etc...


  7. #7
    jocomoreno's Avatar
    jocomoreno is offline Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    64

    Default

    I understand. Thanks for the response. Looking forward to the webinars. The more I read into this site the more new stuff i learn.

  8. #8
    caramel is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1

    Default food aggression with my boerboel puppy

    hey mike,

    i was reading this post and found it informative, but i still am a little confused. this is my issue-i have a 3 month old Boerboel puppy from South Africa who is the calmest puppy. he is very intelligent and has learned sit, down,leave it, come, go to the crate, and his name. he is getting better with "stay." Anyway, my problem is his food aggression. it started when my pet chicken tried to eat from his food bowl. totally understood why, but aggression is unacceptable in the house, period. so i removed the chicken and removed his bowl, which when i did, he growled and tried to bite me. Again, i understood why, but i was immediately pissed.

    so the puppy ran over to my great dane/pit mix (who no longer has food aggression) and tried to eat from his bowl in which the puppy got bitten and flung around a bit. The bite was hard and didn't break the skin, but the puppy learned his lesson and respects the dog's space now.

    i want the puppy to not feel threatened if i need to remove his food. he is good with being touched and having his feet touched when eating, as is my other dog. i remember that when my other dog had food aggression, he got over it because every time i would come over i would say his name in an upbeat tone and would chuck treats or fruit into his bowl. the dog associates me with food and petting and even comes when called while eating with tail wagging. i would like my puppy to behave the same way, but i know becoming angry when he exhibits aggression is not the way to do it because he picks up on it.

    i tried having the dog eat from my hand while in the bowl and he's fine with that, but that's not realistic. he is good with the "sit-stay" command before getting the "ok" to eat, but then he becomes possessive (which i understand since no one should bemessing with someone else's food). this is a dog that will have a head tsize wice as big as mine and will have at least a 600lb per pressure bite strength. if i ever need to remove his bowl for a good reason, i want to be able to do it safely.

    i want to go about it in the right way. i know my attitude needs an adjustment. i'm a very assertive person, and part of my problem is that i get angry if my authority is challeneged and so have been working on exhibiting a calmer-stable energy to the pack. since he is a puppy, if i can fix the problem now, that would be wonderful. What do you suggest that i do?
    Last edited by caramel; 04-13-2012 at 12:12 PM. Reason: typed too fast...spelling errors

  9. #9
    Teresa is offline Certified Foundation Style Dog Trainer, LVT
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    100

    Default

    It sounds like you had the right idea with your other dog. Passing by and tossing treats in or near food bowl. This will help address his emotional state when you approach his bowl. It sounds like he tolerates you being near him while eating since you mentioned you can handle him and his feet while eating.

    Realistically if you ever needed to remove his food bowl you dont have to take it away from him while he is eating. Instead I would depend on reliable obedience, such as being able to call him away from his food, and then safely picking up the food once he has been removed.

    Have you worked on reading through the triangle? Things like attitude, and pack structure are of particular importance with this breed and issue.

    Your attitude is definitely very important. If you react aggressively to his behavior than you are likely to make the issue worse, damage your relationship with him and can potentially cause issues in other areas.

    Hope this answers your question!

+ Reply to Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts